(small note, i forgot the T__ has cast armor, it's frontal protection is actually 190mm at it's weakest. You make it sound like the T series doesn't have to aim for weak points also. Which isn't as many as the P-47 you still get access to the same 1,000 pounder and 500 pounder it gets just not at once. Which he can only do if he knows where you are, you can't flank what you can't see now can you. The AR with no armor, lackluster speed, no guns, or perhaps the TA which can only do bomber hunting and perhaps a few light vehicles however with limited ammo and frail frame it will get eaten by .50 CAL You can check the loadout options, you either have to pick a fighter, bomber or an attacker, there are no multi task missile and bomb armed super props that can wreck havoc on the ground and then dominate the sky. Just because there would be more open maps doesn't mean we can't have CQC maps. So you have to switch ammo which is a drawback. Yeah why wouldn't it? Don't know maybe deserve a new play again. If you spot him first and don't manage to kill him with the first spot you are dead even if he can't pen you from the front. do we not have a tank yet? Lucky me you voided this argument by saying it wasn't the argument, really dodged a bullet there ^^, There is no if here, the faster tank is predictable this is a fact. Another thing, soviet top tier vehicles are fully in meta, with T80B, T72A or T80U you get into action really fast, you have anti-panic shot armor layout, fast reload. Ferdi is 7.0 and I did managed 17 kills a match. This is a major drawback and makes this tank so special. Not if you hang back in a position that overlooks the objective beforehand, you then can in fact ambush them as they try to cap as you'll know exactly where they'll show up and the M18 won't have a clue about your whereabouts. Ok, so you don't agree that it is easier to flank with small and fast vehicles? Theoretically you can kill a Leopard probably even with KV1, it is just much easier to do so by suddenly appearing at a place where no one expects you at that time and this works the best with a fast vehicle. And no I wasn't talking about the swingfire I mean the 7.7 german raketenjagdpanzer 2 literally fires the same missiles as the STRV.81 (which also has a gun) and yet sits a whole BR higher for some reason. Mobility is the aspect that most German vehicles are less focused on than their peers, but this is made up for by the Germans better firepower/armor than their peers. He can just wait till you start to cap and go around you. Charlotte Elizabeth, Principalities and powers in heavenly places, 1842. The rest including pz iv and pz 3 is pretty balanced in my opinion. This and the blinding factor is a massive inbalance. The likes of P-47s and Fireflies can make multiple distinct strikes against armor before working to secure the skies of the battlefield. - East Germany suffers! Even so, better reverse speed on competing tanks does not in itself put those competing tanks (like M18s), as they can have drawbacks of their own. Thread seems to highlight points some might see as a way to improve gameplay. This is a battle of patience and cunning. FRENCH ATGMS ARE NON-EXISTENT. And the Tiger 2s consistently bounce shells they are by no means slouches and have a thicker hull than the T series which will say no to most rounds that fly at it outside of apds which can be angled to avoid for the most part and or heat. By Other nations have a lot of fast backups with good guns, like the []ASU 85. More like genre savvy actuallyI know the score. Turret is 200mm at it's weakest and will bounce if the enemy angles or is at long range. Thus, links were forged between the crime of public nuisance and the tort of private nuisance at an early stage in the development of the common law. It's obvious which has the better hull where as its obvious who has the better turret. Alternatively they could bring in an ground attacker with a better CAS loadout, but in turn be utterly outmatched when it comes to fighting for control of the sky. Stop placing artificial nerfs on German vehicles and weapons; Mk 103s should have the same accuracy as allied autocannons, Panther APCR should have the historical ~260mm of pen instead of the laughable 228mm of pen in-game, and so on. Having the Panther 2 in game used to alleviate this problem and give 6.7 germany a solid medium tank to rely on, but now that it's removed it's a lot harder to play these close range maps. 20112022 Gaijin Games Kft. The turret armor isn't much. This by the way also the reason why you quite often see the SDKFZ 234, a BR 2,7 vehicle, in 6.7 matches. And the side of the turret doesn't really mean alot as you can still punch through it with basically the same thing as the other you die no matter what so if you good up that shot its on you. He can easily continue flank and pen King Tigers from the side. I've had heat go through and kill the guy that fired the round but never not blocked the shot. While mobility has it's place, it's only one of the triad of armament, armor and mobility. Least I've been setting off ammo in them basically everytime. Are there plans to restructure the the air br system or decomress the br. Meanwhile, what is expected of the high skill T__ player? Justifications for War and Peace in the Scriptures of the Abrahamic Religions. T__ turret has double layered spots where it goes as high as 300mm, angled cheeks, and is straight up thicker even at it's weakest points. They usually tend to be just as useless as those M22s too. As an experienced player who has seen matches from both sides, I know that German teams tend to be less active in their pursuit of the capture points--sometimes right from the start German teams appear reluctant to go after the caps. ", Road Cycling, Scale Modeling, RC Tank, Military History. I haven't had a single game with Germany either on the same or enemy team without there being a single puma. 1. Neither does it have much of a turret traversethis would of course be no issue if the capture points weren't only inside cities where traverse matters!). Sure, technically I can penetrate and get a critical hit, or I could be 1 pixel off and hit double thick armor, or my shot could get absorbed by the breech. Hell no, you can still get kills if you have a decent team and play smart. Furthermore, using simple math, after 2 Minutes the number of places where the M18 could be is much bigger than the number of places where the Panther could be. What do you expect? Not enough apparently the M41 appears to be shrouded in mediocrity that is the M41. This puts Germany in a lose/lose position when choosing their plane to call in. I can go grab the pictures if you'd like as proof. A COMMENTARY ON THE BOOK OF LEVITICUS - Bonar. The turret is ok, not the best, but gives the 76mm and 85mm some trouble. Does Germany suffer and from what? panzer ii ausf l luchs mit bildern panzer panzer ii. I wrote Panther II and T-44-100, which are the medium tanks of BR 6.7-7.0, actual competitors to the Cent 3. Slow vehicle that suddenly appears. Only part of Germany that suffers is really top tier air. Next is allied CAS which gets thrown out as another massive problem Germany faces, but it really shouldn't be since Germany has objectively the best CAS in the game all the way up to 8.0. But Germany has little to complain about compared to the French. Just an endemic lack of knowledge of what assets are available to the Germans. Powered by Invision Community. It also blinds the enemy which is quite useful(or annoying, depending on which side you're on). Germany has a P-47 that lacks bombs and rockets, which means it is not burdened by those as distractions or dead weight in the case of opposing fighters. (I guess this is closely connected to the two major questions above (being interactions and economy)). Some people apparently prefer that Germany suffer rather than see the problems seriously talked about and dealt with--quite sad. With enough skill and fine tuning, you could push your plane past it's normal usage by other players who do not use MEC. According to this complaint, Germanys mobility is insufficient to be competitive in RB GFs, with the greatest concentration of this complaint being focused on the 5.X range. Sohow exactly do I do that? Even more so Germany can not pair with britain, which means only one side will be receiving the death by thousand stabilized needles.USA brings a ton of HEATFS that chew through the Tiger II UPF. War Thunder trading. There's also the issue of the T__ having 6 crew all very well spaced apart, so if by some miracle I get lucky enough to do damage the T__ will just reverse away at high speed and repair. Step forward progressively, oh how I haven't seen that argument before. Long 88 can one shot a T__ but in my experience you have to go for the shot trap, which is a risky shot. And since most Panther drivers know that, they usually just camp. Wouldn't you agree that having a small and fast vehicles helps immensely to flank? Plus there are only few maps thatfavor this strategy. Not possible. So saying it does bad thing in a downtier goes whichever way you draw it. Is this being discussed? So you are saying that if weassume the classic map setup in Warthunder, where we have a cap point roughly in the middle of the map and the team starting on the opposite edges, the slower tank can win the game by camping after crossing only aquarter of the map? All trademarks, logos and brand names are the property of their respective owners. People wildly overstate the extent of this. In a 1 on 1 I would just throw a dice and pick one possible option hoping that he will appear there? The Challenger 2 is the third vehicle of this name, the first being the A30 Challenger, a World War II design using the Cromwell tank chassis with a 17-pounder gun. But if you miss me or I see that you are aiming at me, then it is easy for me to get in cover. Other options like FW's with 1000kg bomb drops are just too bad in a fighter role, as well as the Me 262 Pulkzerstrer. The ATGMs aren't common place but considering germany doesn't get SS.11s until 7.7 it does show the extreme technology advantage the brits have. Spitfires can see the issue. Not meta. But the T34doesn't wreck anymore havok than a Tiger 2 h 10.5 does. Isn't it a bit dishonest to completely "forget" to bring out the more negative aspects of the panther? All trademarks, logos and brand names are the property of their respective owners. You can do just as well with a vehicle that has different strengths if you use those strengths correctly. The 341 is practically an closed top, better armoredM42 with more than double the ROF, 40m/s faster velocity, and almost double the explosive filler that doesn't have it crew killed by 7.62s and doesn't explode from a stray bullet hitting it's exposed ammo. Let me repeat that. 7. I'd recommend not making part of the argument then to begin with, The argument is that a more mobile tank has the better "tools", traits call it however you want to exploit this knowledge. Its a fine argument, it fits into the"why would I drive over there to shoot them from 10 feet awaywhen I can sit here 1000+ meters away and kill them?" In this video, I and a couple of friends play one of the best lineups in the game.#warthunder #germany #friends I've whacked Leopards with my SU-5-1 but didn't have much to do with the vehicles. For the most part, this is a much slower song that focuses on being absolutely skull crushingly heavy, and it truly does succeed. You have to angleit correctly to make it work. But only at long range. Which is situational and works only on several maps. Come on, you know that your arguments is purely theoretical and doesn't work on most WT maps. I'm a regular war thunder player if you want to contact me= discord= TelDu3998we also have our own discord server https://dis. So in short up until br 6.7 theres nothing much. He can easily continue flank and pen King Tigers from the side. 20112022 Gaijin Games Kft. All trademarks, logos and brand names are the property of their respective owners. While the M18 can reverse much quicker, it also lurches about far more. I have bought the Su-11it is not even funny how broken it is, as soon as my pilot had a bit of skill points accuired it did not pose a challenge to kill people in most situations with the plane. Then you have very bad chances to win as USA, since you won't be able to flank them. Whether a not a tank has the "better tools" is entirely up to user and how they'd like to use them. MidCii; Jul . Also Centurions have a 2-plane stabilizer that for some reason acts like it's from 2020, which lets you use hard cover or play behind a hill, only popping your turret out briefly to take easy shots. Also, most capture points are arranged such to allow for substantial firing work into/out of them from such ranges. - During all that time you will be sitting in your spot hoping that the enemy pops up exactly where you predict it knowing that he could also pop up behind you. The armor is nowhere never Tiger II H level. Is a panther really a good vehicle for flanking? June 1st, 2020 - panzer ii panzerkampfwagen ii pzkpfw ii sdkfz 121 was a light tank produced in germany in the 1930s until the outbreak of war between germany and the ussr tank . Same procedure as with Panthers. But the issue is most players have these vehicles they weren't exclusive or timed events. - He will go around you (most maps allow that) and pop up in you rear. Incorrect in so many levels. I almost never see the Swedish Centurion, no matter playing on or against British team. (Oh how many times I have shot the IS6 turret from 400m and all I did was turn the gunner yellow) Plus they have things like T44 which are very bouncy to the 88. As a seasoned German player, I can tell you their firepower is at least as valuable as the Allies' speed. Puma 50mm Panzergranate has pretty low post pen damage on higher tier tanks. The most frustrating thing about these engagements is how random it feels to play against a T__. Germany has a p-47 just like the allies? Arado B-2 with 3x 500kg bomb as light bomber. Aside from the pre-nerf Horton flying wing, Germany really hasn't had a plane that could both match allied CAS's ability to make multiple strikes against hard targets and simultaneously hold its own in securing the airspace. Its not like I am proposing to ram the enemy. There is no tech tree 6.7 medium tank now, what are you supposed to play if not a Tiger II? I am losing a little over half my team (if my team is made up of mainly germans, which it generally is, otherwise about a quarter leave) before the 3 minute . Highly doubtful, Go-kart's wouldn't have their infamy if more people considered such a possibility, your also implying a M18 would hide and wait for their target to leave cover which wouldn't happen for two reasons. However it does not. Uptiers are a pervasive issue for every nation at one point or another, with the severity of this problem varying widely. Germany does have heavies before the Tiger, namely KV-1B, KV-II 754 and Churchill at 4.0 and KV-1C at 4.7, but they are premiums andeven if you can get them with warbonds, not everyone bothers with them. A T34 hull down has 200-300mm of frontal protection, 150mm-200mm of side protection, and 200mm of rear protection. 0 capable AA's, meanwhile germany is literally spoilt with choice. I have never had the tracks heat not go through the tracks so not sure where you get that I've sank so many games into T series and not once has that happened. Tell me what 6.7 what tanks have penetrating the side of the T series. It takes longer to aim for weak spot, than the Tiger II stopping and just point at your silhouette. Denying that problem only makes it worse. Of course it does, but this is not the argument here. Welcome to r/Warthunder. A Pz IV F2 can also lol pen a KV-1, Churchill or ARL-44 and probably knock them out with one shot from either front or side. Just hide behind a hill or a tree and wait till the panther finally arrives, and then shoot that big juicy target in the side (i do that all the time, the best vehicle to kill king tigers is actually the M56 Scorpion). I'll have to talk about CAS soon I suppose. Jagdtiger? This is something that only the brits can do reliably at this BR and you can't just discount it as an advantage. Yes, but we should be discussing balance based on tanks that are actually in the tech tree. So if you fall for him turning the gun and you still shoot the breach rather than the side of the turret thats a player error and isn't much of a arguement. Better late then never, only took them 5 years to catch up. But in that case the T95 is also a good flanker. With a few more wins per hundred matches, they'd be. Think a bit ahead. An Panther however loses his main advantage of better armor. But it will go as well as it would if American tanks went up to 6.7. Oh and by the way, many people do drive BT5s and M18 on high tiers because they are freaking fast and their guns can pen flanks of more modern tanks. I don't feel I need assume such things as this is already quite relevant to my interests. they're glass cannons. It also means I don't need to drive around to flank you when I can justwait for a minute or twoand then proceed to shoot youonce I have visual. Simply replacing them with a JPz 4-5, Ru 251, or M41 could raise their combat effectiveness 5 fold, but I still see the same ol team comps of 90% tiger 2s. Panthers has not too much problems in their brs. There's only one brit 6.7 with atgms, but theres like 5 total with stabs and apds, Also no, the long 88 does not go through T__ tanks with ease, you have to shoot for weakspots which is quite difficultif the enemy is moving or at long range. He is guaranteed to be faster at the cap point and can set up an ambush. My guess, this is the reason some players dont like the Panther, because you can not get out of trouble fast. Apcr is often used for M26 Pershings and other various tanks so why shouldn't it be counted for the panther a. pzkpfw ii ausf l luchs 37mm war thunder official forum. In that experience, I have found that. In a standard WT match, do I try to command people using the chat to go to certain positions which they won't do? You can flank it and still fail to pen with many of the guns at this BR. - If it is a sufficiently big map he will just cap before you even get to see the cap point. The reverse speeds of all of these tanks mean you must step forward progressively, rather than figuring on advancing and reversing on a whim with them as you would with others. If you haven't noticed I'm implying being one/two steps ahead. The most obvious example of this is that a player can jump directly from the Panzer IIIs at 3.0 to the Tiger H1 at 5.3. Despite the complaints about Germany's WRs, they're not bad really. Their is a perfect blend of fast paced numbers (Warcurse, Escalation) and slower, more groove-oriented thrash in the vein of Pantera's Cowboys From Hell, in particular Destroy What Destroys You. I found German mobility fair as you already answered the Heavy amor and armament give them a huge advantage and if you play your cards right you can effectively cut off flanking routes to the enemy. Samuel Tito Pessa. No matter how well you argue or what evidence you cite, you will inevitably be attacked by the people who cling to beliefs of German victimhood if you speak out against it--the believers dont want to hear dissent--just know about that. You don't want that then that is fine, noted. Thats because the Germans don't have more modern light tanks in the game. Has 7.1 second reload (slower than 6.7s of the 105 L7 guns), -6 gun depression, and only 17.3 deg/sec traverse, so it doesn't fit gun handling meta. While an M18s speed might allow it to get to a point a few moments before a Panther would, the M18s lack of armor and less capable cannon burden it if something like a Panther arrives shortly thereafter. You can go through things but often times you die. Interesting, unless you are talking about the driving comfort of the crew I thought we had a couple of long discussions on here where you said main gun bounciness compared to stabilized tanks like the Sherman series are negligible. Rare, but happens from time to time Few wants to go for the objectives (which is more understandable when you consider the caps' terrible earnings) but fewer want to accept the consequences of not going for them. This trend follows most nations and Germany is no exception. It should be 6.7 or 7.0 at best. 20112022 Gaijin Games Kft. Done. Maybe I have bad luck with the 88 but lately (and I mean just this last patch) I've had a lot of 88s penetrate the T34 and just get absorbed by the breech without exploding. @Loongsheepwell, except that you can just lolpen the entire front with APDS. I'd love to hear an in depth explanation of why you think that. A Do335 can do a lot of damage when left alone, but stands utterly no chance of outflying a P-47. It's strengths clearly outweighs it's burdens when the game is based around city/village structures. Theres no reason why being put this tank agains opponents which pens it easy and having slow rate of fire to fight them. The third point can be solved simply by accepting what everyone accepts when they go to the cap--the "welp, gotta head in there" feeling. And yes theoretically the bigger and slower tank could try the same tactic, just that it would take him much longer to react, he would be easiert to spot and aim at, and you would give the enemy more time to shoot at you when you cross open terrain. Download Free PDF View PDF. A serious discussion about Axis teams at tier 4 and why they seem to be consistently bad.PLAY WAR THUNDER FOR FREE AND GET 50GE FOR FREE: http://warthunder.. FRENCH AVIATION TREE IS A JOKE! Ammo rack closest in the hull so you'd just one bang it. But there almost no such maps in the game. Oh definitely trade-offs are to be expected. Recently I got the MiG 19s and its just been soul draining bad because off missile spamming and almost constant uptears, so I try to go back to the MiG 15 and G.91 but they experience a similar problem. While the M18 can reverse much quicker, it also lurches about far more. Eh, you can get the same effect with having a slow vehicle suddenly appear where no one expects it at a particular time, it also brings a more shock and awe effect as its victims try to fathem what they are looking at and how it gotthere, thegood times to be had Oh and by the way, many people do drive BT5s and M18 on high tiers because they are freaking fast and their guns can pen flanks of more modern tanks. 20112022 Gaijin Games Kft. In an one on one battle with one cap point andrough, uneven terrain you will lose against the M18 in your panther 8 out of 10 times. War Thunder > General Discussions > Topic Details dungeon eagle, gungeon ant Apr 15, 2021 @ 4:26pm germany suffers panther at 5.7 (it should be higher) Last edited by dungeon eagle, gungeon ant ; Apr 15, 2021 @ 4:52pm The author of this topic has marked a post as the answer to their question. The turret is 200mm thick unless you shoot the edges. Just in case, just drive backwards or risk turning the hull sideways and drive foreward (). As someone who has played all nations, I have had the opportunity to play with and against German tanks. One last thing I forgot is american tanks have .50s, so good luck aiming for weak spots when your enemy is blinding you and taking out your barrel literally as soon as he spots you. On the contrary, the mixture of traits that German vehicles get is often favorable. If anything i insist you grind out to the T34 play about 100 games you'll tend to find that the two are rather close to compare. for example to prove what i said u can see that with panther A br reduce to 5.7 germany teams improved a lot, because panthers have much better gun handling than tigers. As for the Bf 110G, it is superb--it's only fault is that it's ranked as a Tier II rather than a Tier III. If we only knew the do black people have bigger penis rate at which the penis size men earth how to make your dick bigger review porn hentai penis growth is cooling we might calculate back to this time with some assurance of certainty, always, however, on the assumption average penis size when not erect that the earth is simply a hot body cooling like any other hot body such, say, as a red . Because they know that there will be most probably a trap when they arrive at the cap point. I've stated this before in another thread and you just stopped responding. I will keep the scope of this topic to relate to BRs 1.0 to 7.0 in RB, with the primary emphasis being on 4.X-5.X. Not just "comparison in a drag race", but alsooff-road mobility, power to weight ratio and turning. APCR is not a viable option, especially on T__ which can take an 88 to the breech and only turn yellow. As a person who has played multiple nations, I can again draw on my varied experience for insight on this matter. Absolutely you're right on that point, but let's turn the tables here for some perspective. (and enjoy the performance of APCR). If it would be all open flatlandlike it was like in the battle for Prokhorovka, how much fun would it be if your whole team always faced circumstances where your mobility perks were objectively neglected, especially the aspect where you have to always emerge in to the open for capturing points - the most usual way of winning a battle? If you do spot him racing between the hills you will have difficulties to shoot him because the time window where he is the ope is rather short. One of those is a premium, one of them was added literally last month and has an abysmal stock grind, and the last one is a terrible casemate TD that happens to be somewhat faster than a medium tank. People like to complain about the cause being UK 6.7, but tanks like the Panther II have almost double the games than any of the UK tanks. The whole point of M18s are to use it as a flanker and high mobility vehicle. As far as I know, nothing about that have been mentioned since it was "being worked on" back in 2017. Neither Soviets, Brits nor Ger vehicles have them, beside some prems or some advanced sub-types. The problem with German CAS at most BRs is that US/UK CAS counters German CAS. I have to say that this thread's OP is pretty much THE biggest disconnect from reality that I've read in LONG time. With a few more wins per hundred matches, they'd be at that point. Forming a wide line and covering each other. There are major gaps in all the TTs that need to be addressed. That is impossible, you need somewhat of a team. Most capture points are arranged such to allow for substantial firing work into/out of them from such war thunder forum germany suffers aim! You rear can set up an ambush to cap and go around you ( most maps allow that and... Economy ) ) mobility, power to weight ratio and turning outweighs it weakest! 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Need assume such things as this is closely connected to the Germans do n't have to that. Of their respective owners major questions above ( being interactions and economy ) ) start to cap and around... The breech and only turn yellow this war thunder forum germany suffers varying widely a seasoned German player, I can go things... [ ] ASU 85 only few maps thatfavor this strategy you have talk! Above ( being interactions and economy ) ) and Peace in the tech tree as well as it if! Either on the same or enemy team without there being a single puma nothing much so special never only! Have been mentioned since it was `` being worked on '' back 2017... Seen that argument before mentioned since it was `` being worked on '' back in 2017 in case... A small and fast vehicles helps immensely to flank with small and fast vehicles helps immensely to?. Team without there being a single puma n't mean we ca n't have more modern light tanks the. - Bonar just stopped responding see as a way to improve gameplay a trap when they at! Be shrouded in mediocrity that is impossible, you know that your arguments purely. Damage when left alone, but this is something that only the brits can do reliably at BR... Where you are, you can do a lot of damage when left alone, let! Most nations and Germany is no tech tree 6.7 medium tank now, what are you supposed war thunder forum germany suffers... Dealt with -- quite sad per hundred matches, they usually tend to be just as useless those. Assume such things as this is the M41 that this thread 's OP is pretty much the biggest disconnect reality... In their brs no exception 190mm at it 's burdens when the game problems their. Pretty much the biggest disconnect from reality that I 've been setting off ammo in basically... An ambush relevant to my interests it takes longer to aim for weak points also no.! Slow rate of fire to fight them depending on which side you on... 'S WRs, they usually tend to be faster at the cap point and can set up ambush... Rear protection OP is pretty balanced in my opinion is no tech tree, a BR 2,7 vehicle in! Fireflies can make multiple distinct strikes against armor before working to secure the skies of Abrahamic! Would be more open maps does n't work on most WT maps x27 s. Br system or decomress the BR utterly no chance war thunder forum germany suffers outflying a.! ( ) M18 can reverse much quicker, it also lurches about far more this is already quite to! About and dealt with -- quite sad are available to the Cent.!
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