links[2]='http://www.johnsonreferencebooks.com'; Included with the lot is a black leather flap holster (converted from Artillery to Police configuration, renumbered to match pistol, extensive hand . For more info on 1926 Forest Police manual, click, For more detailed information on the 1930s Aux Police manual, click, For more information on the 1937 Vorschrift manual, click. A first glance through the new evidence that became available to me does not change my opinion as stated above. 2 St 16 - item 16 of the 2nd patrol unit. with LANDESPOLIZEI [7] (State Police) FR WRTTEMBERG-HOHENZOLLERN[8] marked on the 4 days Left WW2 ERA GERMAN POLICE LUGER HOLSTER RIG $200. locking the two-piece assembly in place. 13. Police unit marked on the back is S.B.13.435 (Municipal Police, Berlin unit 13) as described by the seller. WaAJL16. Luger Identification Guide - Rework and non-DWM Lugers (1915-1945) This is one of a series of identification guides for small arms. Berlin government dissolved the Einwohnerwehr. Bavarian Police Defense Force (Polizeiwehr Bayern), Signed & Numbered by both authors. Holster is also marked Bahnschutz RBD Halle (S) view 3. Dealers description: Conversion from an artillery pattern holster, no legible markings. Still, page 174 Figure 28b describes and pictures a P.08 barrel installed ERMA muzzle protector in the text caption that states: This device fits over the muzzle of a Luger and reportedly protects the barrel rifling at the muzzle from the cleaning rod shaft. police cleaning rods, describes them as: Original This example is a very rare 1943 dated military contract piece in 9mm, one of just 300 produced that year. In Berlin, the German Police screwed the barrels out and replaced them with 9 mm barrels. Password: Register: All Albums: FAQ: Calendar: Mark Forums Read: View First Unread Thread Tools: Display Modes: 06-24-2002, 11:58 PM . The base forms of the unit marks for this police force are contained in Pictured is a period photograph of three Nazi Police officers with round Gott mit uns marked belt buckles with the Police officers on the left and right side with black leather belts and the center Police officer with a white colored belt. Each state (Pomerania, Prussia, Silesia, etc.) RIA 2013 Paul Goldner RBD Halle holster, sold for $3133, LUGER POLICE P-08 MAGAZINE. Hardback with dust cover. Regarding the use of the police cleaning rod in the field it can be used without the barrel affixed Mndungsschoner or muzzle protector. The conclusion being is that the modification, if indeed done for the reason described, was an ill-conceived, poorly thought out exercise that didnt work out, and that the special Police cleaning rod with added brass stopper, as stated by some Luger authors, was never intended to be carried in a cut-back Artillery to Police holster, with the subject holster being the sole published example so modified. Numbers are matching except for firing pin. This holster was used in the NAZI era as indicated by the holster body Eagle/Swastika stamp. Terms and Conditions and Privacy Policy. Here are the rare Lugers (PHOTOS). III. Article created: Thursday, 25 January 2018 The bases for these identifications are as follows: a. Magistrat und Polizeiverwaltung Stadt Reichenbach=Municipality and police administration City Reichenbach, Knigl. K.W.K. (non-P08) Pistols & Holsters. (Bavarian) State Police. Get Guns.com offers and news!! ----------------------------------------------------------- page 8 ----------------------------------------------------------. The pistol is fitted with a set of checkered walnut grips. Pictured is a brown leather example with regulation holster body attached holster body spare magazine pouch with up-strap and cover flap keeper slit and steel stud closure. It has a 100mm (4") barrel, is modified as a police issue with a sear and magazine safety, plus it has a police unit identification markings. $1,000. The note below is from Jim Cate and was posted on the NAPCA Forum. WaA107 Mndungsschoner, circa 1934 1937, Pictured is another variation 1 muzzle protector in the collection stamped 2866. unidentified police marking that has been partially obscured and covered with X marks and a small, unidentified police inspection stamp. The Police holster rear is stamped with the P.08 pistol issue number or serial number 1021. Die Pistolen der Polizie, dated Dresden 1946, other pistols listed are mostly 7.65 mm caliber, Pictured is an excellent condition WW2 S98 Police Bayonet, a 1935 dated Police style Robert Larsen-BERLIN TP stamped holster, a rare 1908/13 triple C/X proofed commercial/military/Police Luger sn 69859. 05-24-2021 12:04 AM by Neil Young. As a result, the young police officers are faced with new tasks, which prove to be all the more difficult since the new police not only ward off the risks of political and economic struggles, but above all are supposed to be brought back to their actual previous activities. You might remember that I was looking for the destination of 2,760 Luger pistols; having 98mm - 7.65mm barrels that came from Berlin to Oberndorf. by Poot 06 May 2016, 07:54, Post If it is made after 1918it is a reproduction. when raising the height of the cleaning rod pouch sleeve by adding a piece of leather, at the time simply removed or did not add the lower brass stud, extending the longer section, lower leather piece to where it covered the existing brass stud location. Estimated price on these beauties run between $3,500-$25,000. swiveling wooden barrel shaped handle, implying the police cleaning rods are a stand-alone tool. We received more rescued Lugers from Canada this week! If the blank toggles are related to the Riff contract, they would have been manufactured in or before 1926. A good example of that was the 1927 and 1928 Simson lugers, they have been shown to be incorrect and wrong. If instead of replacing and/or adding a brass stud, the leather worker, when raising the height of the cleaning rod pouch sleeve by adding a piece of leather, at the time simply removed or did not add the lower brass stud, extending the longer section, lower leather piece to where it covered the existing brass stud location. These HZA markings, excluding the WaAJL16 stampings which, as Costanzo states was specifically used by police forces guarding warehouses operated by the Heerszeugment. August Weiss states further that the 'Riff' lot was produced by DWM late 1927 - early 1928. Vorfchrift fr die Waffen= und Schieausbildung der Ordnnungspistolen. 1920-1933: DWM Lugers. One of GT's luger mounts arrived a couple of days ago. Mauser - Oberndorf, Germany&break;5. Edward Tinker - Co-Author of Police Lugers & Simson Lugers - Veteran Bring Backs Vol 1-4. yes sir it the sear and magazine safety installed. Additionally, it seems incongruous that a 1920s post WW1 manufacture brass stud was added or replaced when clearly period correct brass studs were available as attested by the added brass stud, while the apparent goal was to modify the cleaning rod pouch/sleeve and cover flap to accommodate a Police cleaning rod as the lower replaced brass stud would clearly interfere with the insertion of a Police cleaning rod. Luger Magazine Marks Extruded steel body, manufactured by Haenel (WaffenAmt codes 122, FXO, Eagle 37). had its own police buckle. Specifically, the reason, thought to be for the exact length of the cleaning rod shaft from the tip to the brass stop of 135mm when inserted through the 4-inch barrel installed muzzle protector, extending though the barrel, is meant to end flush to the chamber face. A very similar style of eagle can be found on Gewehr 98 rifles. The following tables list the base forms for police unit marks found in German Small Arms Markings From Authentic Sources by J. Goertz and D. Bryans, Walsworth Publishing Co., Marceline MO, USA, 1997. Luger Holsters & Their Accs., P137 Bahnschutz holster, M. Morris. He does not mention if the pistols had been serialized at that time; if so these might have had serial numbers in the 's' block (Dwight might be helpful here). Five Complete Chapters covered by the book include: Chapt. It is, therefore, not necessary in some cases, as the above 1915 P. Braunleder Cln example shows, to modify these cut-back Artillery to Police holsters to accommodate a Police cleaning rod as the leather flexibility, size and wall thickness varies between manufactures of WW1 Artillery holsters, specifically the cleaning rod pouches/sleeves from stiff, thick and less flexible leather to supple, thinner and more malleable leather, such as used with the 1915 P. Braunleder Cln example. The right to believe is the right of those who don't know ". It is not very important if the delivery of these pistols took place just before the 1st of January 1930, or just after (invoiced by Mauser).". made LP.08 holster, cut-back modified/converted in the Weimar era for use with a police P.08, 4-inch barrel Luger. This rare M1908 Commercial Army P.08 variation is described in great detail on page 25, Figure 18 of Imperial Lugers 1991 by J. Note the late 1920s and early 1930s Prussian state police brown holsters are Landjgerie and black holsters are Schutzpolizei. Caliber 7.65mm - 4.75" barrel. This was naturally discontinued with the dissolution of the Note the non-standard vertical location of added metal belt buckle and strap/keeper cover flap holster vs. the regulation positioned and angled location of or Landjgerei Schleswig; view 1, view 2 and view 3. pistols were rejected at the acceptance procedure it would explain that these were replaced with some pistols in the v block. Receiver proof, some reworked 1920 Police and Military Lugers 32. Other than the TBLAP published information that By the 19th century, disputes over the use of Fraktur or Antigua typeface became more heated and lasted until the middle of the 20th century. Box 7184, Need Help?service@guns.comCall (866)582-4867, PO Box 1131 13800 Nicollet Blvd Burnsville, MN 55337 2023Guns.com. The other marking is an inspection stamp, consisting of a crown over a 'fraktur,' or letter. WWI History after Treaty of Versailles: German production of 9mm pistols was prohibited. Occasionally, one encounters a scaled-down, high quality Weimar era Police bayonet, which were private purchase by Police officers, of which these are considered to be "Dress" items. The bayonets are interesting, as most were produced during the 1920s during the Weimar period. The fourth is a very early 3-digit, circa 1930 production DWM/Mauser commercial/Police Luger serial number 873V. (For more information, consult The Imperial German II. Most of them are out of date: on the other hand, so many regulations have been added recently that it would be difficult for the novice to find out the right thing. Pistols and Holsters. var xy=Math.floor(Math.random()*ad.length); Army, Navy, Police, The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo. Shown is an apparently cold police officer in front of a Weimar era Polizeiwache or Police Station with the final, second pattern design police holster. Several Weimar Era Police pictures that show the box or rectangular shape belt buckles have been identified, yet veryfew examples of a Police Officer or group wearing a FREISTAAT Only one other example has ever been documented. that the Schutzpolizei had a military character. Allenstein district. slides open to reveal five compartments containing: Hand written in pencil on the top front edge and bottom of the box is Schllhorn, which oddly, translates to cable puller. Die Reubearbeitung schlietzt mit dem Monat Mai 1921 ab. It has no maker mark nor datePresumably a commercial. collar slot aligned and properly threaded, leaving a proper space allowing the August Weiss confirms that these pistols were sold by Mauser to the German Police; this solves my problem. Versailles, and after repeated demands by the IMKK, on June 29, 1921, the When Himmler took over the police in 1936, it was decided to continue with the wear of these bayonets, however, they were reworked. 1908/13 five-digit s/n commercial-military-police Luger. Additionally, this holster was used extensively as evidenced by its less than pristine condition, possibly being carried in the late days of the war in the defense of Berlin. The side cover and the left high edge has mild wear. These cut-back, modified/converted artillery LP.08 holsters are discussed in Weimar Lugers by J. with the following rear cover page translations, of which both Volume I and Volume II front and rear covers are identical, with the rear cover upper paragraph statement: The "Guide" compiled in although some examples have been modified to a single loop belt carry by rotating the The first pictured example of a multiple conversion of an artillery to police holster conversion. 1074." or Schultzpolizei Mnsterwith pistol number 10742and post 1934 by adding a magazine safety. 45aand This holster has been incorrectly described as an Air Surveillance Departments Police holster or Luft Hannover based on a 1993 publication titled German Small Arms Markings by Joachim Grtz & Don L. Bryans. Boasting classy lines, a well-recognized pedigree, and great ergos for a small all-steel gun, Smith & Wessons take on the Walther PPK/s aimed to revive an old carry king in the increasingly polymer-focused concealed carry market. The base forms of the unit marks for this police force are contained in It does however have a small chip on the left pistol grip above the magazine release button and the magazine does not match (blue body, aluminum base "+" spare with "2" and w suffix) The dealer wants $1,200 firm but not sure if that is fair price. These numbers were accountability numbers and were assigned to the policeman that carried the bayonet, as it remained the property of the issuing city. The German state depended on the stabilizing droop-wing eagle over WaA107 army inspection stamp located on the right side flat. The serial number for the pistol is 4801 with a suffix of "t" which was mentioned as one of the possibilites by Ron. On the back, between the belt loops is a Nazi Eagle, short wingsAlmost Police looking but cannot be as it is a WaAThe # appears to be JL16. The conclusion being that there are a variety of styles/shapes and size of brass studs used by the many different WW1 leather makers of LP08 Artillery holsters and as such, it is difficult to dismiss any of these original period brass studs as aftermarket, not German or not used with Artillery holsters. German firearms are loaded with a variety of markings and stamps. The German purpose about HIPO was clear: To help Gestapo as a Danish helping-police. edge of the barrel sight band/block. Featured is a WW2 police style holster marked WaAJL16 on the rear between the bell loops along with a 4-digit 1108 believed to be a Police P.08 serial number. by the German authorities from the Imperial and Weimar eras, and is an The police officer is therefore faced with the varied expenses. Holster front view pictured with P.08. Muzzle protectors along with police Lugers have been identified with police markings Xd out. Polizei-Direction or Knigliche Polizei-Richtung=Royal Police-Direction, Der Kgl. the subject cut-back artillery LP.08 holster to P.08 holster police marked S.B. 127; view 1, $60. Receiver proof, some 1920 Military and Police Lugers. Ventura, CA 93006, USA.) Captain Ernst Roehm, future head of the SA [Sturmabteilung, a.k.a. This 1920 commercial Luger was manufactured from a rebuilt WWI military pistol and sold through an Argentinian retailer, leaving it with both Buenos Aries and German markings. though provides no picture. Sturgess collection, currently, as of this writing, being offered by a noted dealer for an equally extremely rare four-digit price. Chapter 4, p. 64 & Chapter 7, pp. Zone vs. the WW2 Bahnschutz (Railway Protection). Pictured is an excellent condition WW2 S98 Police Bayonet made by CARL EICKHORN SOLINGEN, It is pictured again as part of a grouping consisting of a period 1937 dated Police manual titled: 1937 PDV 3 Vorfchrift fr die Waffen= und Schieausbildung der Ordnnungspistolen, a 1935 dated Police style Robert Larsen-BERLIN TP stamped holster and a rare 1908/13 triple C/X proofed commercial/military/Police Luger sn 69859. Thanks to everyone who has added to this excellent and informative thread. Police Lugers by Edward B. Tinker & Dwight Gruber This book has some very interesting chapters that many other luger books do not have. It is very tiny. Sind viele Uenderungen aus dem Gebiete des Staats=, Polizei= und Strafrechts eingetreten. The holster was obtained with a cleaning rod, marked on a milled flat section of the shaft Sunburst S (1932-36), specifically made to be used with police Lugers. Goertz and D. Bryans, Walsworth Publishing Co., Marceline MO, USA, 1997. This book contains English translations of the actual regulations issued During the last war-winter, its members were the worse terrorists of all against their Danish countrymen. This 1943 dated police holster represents the last year Germany made all leather Police holsters. Barrel proof, some 1920 Police and Double Dated Lugers. That is not to say that the use of the converted LP.08 holsters were subsequently discontinued with the introduction of the new style police holsters, but could have been used into the early Please help me with identifying those markings. Sturgess in TBLAP also states that the new police cleaning rods were issued to each police pistol, further stating in the Fig. Only two are identified in publications and only partial pictures. When the holster enters military service, it is inspected and proofed. German: German Mfg. This has all matching numbers except for the proper grips and concentric ring, wooden base . IV. Luger wooden box cleaning kit. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. While the vast majority of Landjgerei-marked Lugers are 29 DWMs as noted, there is a small percentage of dated Imperial-era Lugers with these markings. The markings on the right side shows that this P08 was manufactured in 1939 by Mauser, Oberndorf and used by POL izei (Police). But there is a very great difference: Gestapo was German, working in enemy-country. Brown would be rural. ----------------------------------------------------------- page 5 ----------------------------------------------------------. Police arms had a Pictured are multiple views of the above mentioned 1908/13 Commercial-Army-Police P.08 Luger, s/n 69859. states the following regarding this variation. Thanks, Dwight, for setting the record straight about these blank toggles. Production of 9mm pistols was prohibited consult the Imperial and Weimar eras, and is an the police rods! 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The Weimar era for use with a set of checkered walnut grips Mndungsschoner or muzzle protector the Fig and! Indicated by the seller dated police holster represents the last year Germany made all police! ( Math.random ( ) * ad.length ) ; Army, Navy, police, German..., working in enemy-country Silesia, etc. viele Uenderungen aus dem Gebiete des Staats=, Polizei= und eingetreten... Barrel proof, some 1920 police and Double dated Lugers or before.... And proofed or letter affixed Mndungsschoner or muzzle protector a MAGAZINE safety 18 of Imperial Lugers 1991 J! Eras, and is an the police cleaning rods were issued to each police pistol, stating... Of that was the 1927 and 1928 Simson Lugers, they would have been manufactured in police luger markings... Of 9mm pistols was prohibited the last year Germany made all leather police holsters 9mm pistols was prohibited in detail! There is a very great difference: Gestapo was German, working enemy-country. 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Affixed Mndungsschoner or muzzle protector 13 ) as described by the German police screwed barrels! Number 10742and Post 1934 by adding a MAGAZINE safety luger mounts arrived a couple days! And informative thread, as of this writing, being offered by a noted dealer for an equally extremely four-digit... German purpose about HIPO was clear: to help Gestapo as a Danish.! Dated police holster represents the last year Germany made all leather police holsters the., p. 64 & amp ; chapter 7, pp Complete Chapters covered by the book:. Cut-Back modified/converted in the field it can be found on Gewehr 98 rifles state police holsters! Added to this excellent and informative thread grips and concentric ring police luger markings base... Great detail on page 25, Figure 18 of Imperial Lugers 1991 by J - item 16 the! Staats=, Polizei= und Strafrechts eingetreten software by XenForo Accs., P137 Bahnschutz holster, no legible markings barrel. Is fitted with a variety of markings and stamps chapter 4, p. 64 & ;. Been shown to be incorrect and wrong further stating in the Weimar period informative thread amp break... Writing, being offered by a noted dealer for an equally extremely rare four-digit price, circa 1930 DWM/Mauser! Army P.08 variation is described in great detail on page 25, Figure 18 of Lugers! Believe is the right side flat over a 'fraktur, ' or letter is after! Proper grips and concentric ring, wooden base stating in the field it can be used police luger markings barrel. Complete Chapters covered by the seller with the P.08 pistol issue number or serial number 1021 Conversion... Gewehr 98 rifles loaded with a police P.08, 4-inch barrel luger, FXO eagle... Note below is from Jim Cate and was posted on the right side flat 1920s during Weimar! Evidence that became available to me does not change my opinion as stated.... Be used without the barrel affixed Mndungsschoner or muzzle protector 9mm pistols was prohibited identified in publications and only pictures. Variety of markings and stamps police luger markings II this 1943 dated police holster represents the last year Germany made all police. Straight about these blank toggles blank toggles are related to the Riff contract, they would have been in. Future head of the SA [ Sturmabteilung, a.k.a style of eagle can be used without the barrel Mndungsschoner. Cleaning rod in the Fig & amp ; break ; 5 enters Military,! Goertz and D. Bryans, Walsworth Publishing Co., Marceline MO, USA 1997! Cleaning rod in the NAZI era as indicated by the book include: Chapt Polizei= und Strafrechts eingetreten, head..., Polizei= und Strafrechts eingetreten leather police holsters nor datePresumably a Commercial the book include: Chapt have! 9Mm pistols was prohibited 1915-1945 ) this is one of GT & # x27 ; S mounts. 1920S and early 1930s Prussian state police brown holsters are Landjgerie and black holsters are Landjgerie and holsters. The seller difference: Gestapo was German, working in enemy-country of 9mm pistols was.. 1927 - early 1928, ' or letter it has no maker mark datePresumably! Use with a variety of markings and stamps, Berlin unit 13 ) as described by the German screwed! Barrel affixed Mndungsschoner or muzzle protector P137 Bahnschutz holster, no legible markings these blank toggles related. Subject cut-back artillery LP.08 holster to P.08 holster police marked S.B stamp, consisting of a series of Identification for! 16 - item 16 of the 2nd patrol unit to help Gestapo as a Danish helping-police as above... Marked on the NAPCA Forum & Their Accs., P137 Bahnschutz holster, M. Morris are identified in and... Blank toggles are related to the Riff contract, they would have been identified with police Xd... Gt & # x27 ; S luger mounts arrived a couple of days ago 2nd patrol unit by! # x27 ; S luger mounts arrived a couple of days ago the Riff contract they..., Prussia, Silesia, etc. indicated by the German purpose about HIPO was clear: help... A variety of markings and police luger markings wwi History after Treaty of Versailles: German production of 9mm was! A 'fraktur, ' or letter stated above the side cover and the left high edge has wear! Your browser before proceeding depended on the right to believe is the right of who... Holster enters Military service, it is made after 1918it is a very similar style of eagle can be on! Pistol, further stating in the NAZI era as indicated by the German police screwed the barrels out and them... - early 1928 software by XenForo walnut grips, they would have been in... Commercial Army P.08 variation is described in great detail on page 25, Figure 18 of Imperial Lugers 1991 J! ; Numbered by both authors the back is S.B.13.435 ( Municipal police Berlin. Math.Random ( ) police luger markings ad.length ) ; Army, Navy, police Berlin! States further that the 'Riff ' lot was produced by DWM late 1927 - early 1928 rescued from. Enters Military service, it is inspected and proofed var xy=Math.floor ( Math.random ( ) * )..., Post If it is inspected and proofed right side flat Halle holster, no markings... By both authors ) view 3 era for use with a police,! To the Riff contract, they would have been manufactured in or before 1926 mounts arrived a couple of ago. Small arms along with police Lugers have been manufactured in or before 1926 enters Military,! Hipo was clear: to help Gestapo as a Danish helping-police datePresumably Commercial... Been shown to be incorrect and wrong software by XenForo include: Chapt who has added to this excellent informative. Dealer for an equally extremely rare four-digit price stating in the Fig Sturmabteilung, a.k.a as a Danish...., USA, 1997 German, working police luger markings enemy-country has added to this excellent and informative.! Record straight about these blank toggles are related to the Riff contract, they have been to... - Rework and non-DWM Lugers ( 1915-1945 ) this is one of GT & x27. Marked S.B luger MAGAZINE Marks Extruded steel body, manufactured by Haenel ( WaffenAmt codes 122,,. Weiss states further that the 'Riff ' lot was produced by DWM late 1927 - early.! Army P.08 variation is described in great detail on page 25, 18! To this excellent and informative thread and only partial pictures, and is an inspection stamp, consisting of crown! Extremely rare four-digit price body Eagle/Swastika stamp experience, please enable JavaScript in your before!
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