When Paul was arrested, he told the people and the authorities, "I am a Jew, born in Tarsus in Cilicia, but brought up in this city, educated at the feet of Gamaliel according to the strict manner of the law of our fathers, being zealous for God as all of you are this day" (Acts 22:3). He says he is "of the tribe of Benjamin.". The people who Paul persecuted were diaspora Jews who accepted Jesus as Messiah and claimed that he was raised from the dead. What does tents mean in the Bible? Probably his training with Gamaliel would have been concluded by the time he was twenty and would have given Paul a very good understanding of Old Testament Scripture. While Paul was studying under Gamaliel he was exposed to Hellenism, including the gymnasium. .1) There is more New Testament text written specifically about the Church in Corinth than any other church, by far. Dear Philip, Below are quotes and links from two other blog gentlemen (Christopher, and UnashamedofJesus) who disagree with each other. Id better buy a case of chalk and some more erasers. I dont see this in the text. Rabbinical eras Chazal Zugot Tannaim Amoraim Savoraim Geonim Rishonim Acharonim v t e In the Christian tradition, Gamaliel is recognized as a Pharisee doctor Share of voice equals share of mind. Just because Paul disagreed with Gamaliel on one tiny aspect hes therefore a from the school Shammi? I am not at all sure you have read my article accurately, nor really spent much time on this site reading the things I post here. Paul did a much better job of marketing himself, and he wrote about himself hundreds of times. You are one of a growing number of followers of the Messiah (p) Issa/Yesha who actually have figured out Paul was a con artist sent to corrupt the movement started by the Nazarene Messiah (p) and if it failed in Pauls lifetime it succeeded under the Roman Emporer Constantine and it was Paul they revered as THE Apostle, even before Nicene Creed was made up. Gamaliel. Helpful. whats d equivalence of studying at d feet of Gamaliel to todays education. When Paul began the training that ultimately led him down the road of encounter with the risen Christ on the way to Damascus, we actually have no details. You said that your QUOTE Quran is incorruptible. Thats like many Christians saying the Bible is inerrant. Muhammad is to Muslims as Paul is to most Christians as Mary is to most Catholics an idol that they worship, practically speaking. A generation before Christ there were two great rabbis, Hillel and Shammai. So the Twelve gathered all the disciples together. And this is before Saul/Paul is even mentioned. His epertise in Sitz im Leben however, if not normally impeccable, is usually of a high academic calibre indeed. new nbi director 2021. celsius drink side effects; family as a social construct; hobbies and interests for health care assistant. They also believed gentiles could convert and be in covenant but there needed to be structure to convert. Its all a part of Gods perfect timing and plan. Definition of tentmaker 1 : one that makes tents. Calling the Twelve to him, he sent them out two by two and gave them authority over evil spirits. [Mark 6:6-7], .2) Gospel of Luke time lag between being appointed and being sent One of those days Jesus went out to a mountainside to pray, and spent the night praying to God. Evangelism is part of the Second Commandment given by Jesus, to Love people. If you look at both the Greek and the Hebrew they were clearly called Netzarim (Nazarites) . He sent Shaul to the gentiles to teach his message and he is a Pharisee. So, you are posting comments just to correct people you think are wrong? This was like most of Pauls ministry, always doing what God told him and doing what was against the grain. However, there are other times when Paul puts his Christian beliefs and what Jesus has to say before the Pharisaical rules and is willing to break a rule or be mocked for something and instead, do something Jesus way. Even if Judas was physically present, as we all realize now, he was not a true follower of Jesus. We should not follow the jesus of Paul the Pharisee or Muhammad or any other man, who had their own ideas of who jesus was and what He did. There are things which are not revealed and there are things which are revealed to us. Brothers, I do not consider myself yet to have taken hold of it. [Philippians 3:12-13] (Response- They say third times a charm. Youre putting your western views on a Hebraic book that is of near eastern culture. The overwhelming internal evidence of The New Restament and mishnaic sources on the Schools of Shammai and of Hillel support the liklihood of Paul being from the School of Hillel. Sages of the time didn't have formal recognition or title. Something I would like to believe, though! He appointed twelve designating them apostles that they might be with him [Mark 3:13-14], Three chapters later, Then Jesus went around teaching from village to village. When morning came, he called his disciples to him and chose twelve of them, whom he also designated apostles: Simon.. [Luke 6:12-14], Again three chapters later, When Jesus had called the Twelve together, he gave them power and authority to drive out all demons and to cure diseases, and he sent them out to preach the kingdom of God and to heal the sick. [Luke 9:1-2], .3) Gospel of Matthew which is organized by theme, not necessarily in chronological order. Jesus calls us to Himself When The Show begins Were infants so He humors us Its Rocky and His Friends https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=65t-OzhlmvE. (Eph. The teachings he received included "the perfect manner of the law of the fathers" (Acts 22:3). He also intimately knew Gamaliel was was there, at least at The time of Pentecost. What you consider mainsteam Judaism is nothing like the previous sects of Judaism and infact evolved after the temple was destroyed. No research was taken into account of what the yeshivas of HIllel and Shammi taught and believed. He just doesnt suddenly become submission to government and punishment, or in his words a prisoner of Jesus Christ. He is, at least, in some small way returning to what he could have been taught by Gamaliel. Im horrified that youre taking Jewish writings and making crazy stories out of them. And even if Matthias was physically absent at that particular occasion, Jesus is still establishing the basic qualification for having one of the twelve thrones as being you who have followed me, not someone who will follow Jesus in the future, like Paul, James, Luke or anyone else in the world. Law. N. T. Wright describes the Shammaite Pharisee as a militant hard-liner that was not willing to work with Rome as long as they could study the Torah, as Hillel had said (What Saint Paul Really Said, 26). Then, in Acts 22:3, Paul says that he was "brought up in this . Clearly youve never taken hebrew or greek in your life. I find this convincing since Paul seems, at least in part, to return to Gamaliels tutelage after his conversion. Good question, although in Acts Gamaliel is more lenient than Paul with respect to the followers of Jesus. And most of all, he wouldnt of been able to defend the Gospel in such a way as if he did not have the correct teaching. He states not only is he a Pharisee, but where he studied and what tribe he is from. hmmm. Many self-professed Bible-believing Evangelicals wont listen to the words of Jesus, because they are brainwashed through reciting their mantra all scripture is God-breathed.. The reason why Paul is talking about athletics is due to Imperial Court. But we dont need to put words in the mouth of Jesus, we can let Jesus speak for himself, and we can listen to Him and obey Him. This article is the result of when you remove the culture/context of the scriptures, the Hebraics of the Brist Chadasha (Renewed Testament) and injecting the christian outlook that Shaul (Paul) divorced his Jewish roots. Go and sin no more said Jesus, Dont relive that history. How about written in stone in heaven (in other words, for eternity.) Exactly what Issa (p) al Masih said NOT TO! After Pauls conversion, his passion seems to push him to even greater lengths as he then proclaims the very Jesus he had persecuted! This comes from inconsciously believing Pauls mantra, the Evangelical Mantra, that All Scripure is God-breathed, and falsely assuming Paul was referring to every word in the 66 Books of the Bible. In Acts 14:23, we read: Paul and Barnabas appointed elders for them in each church. As a Roman citizen, Paul possessed a coveted status I am surprised that no one has brought the tradition that Gamaliel was sympathetic to Christianity, if not himself baptized. If Paul began study at the latest age of 16, we can guess a birth year of about A.D. 6 at the earliest. Not the Jesus of the Koran, written by Muhammad the self-appointed prophet, and not the Jesus of Paul the Pharisee, the self-appointed apostle. Paul (previously called Saul of Tarsus; c. 5 - c. 64/65 AD), commonly known as Paul the Apostle and Saint Paul, was a Christian apostle who spread the teachings of Jesus in the first-century world. Yes you clearly are removing them from Jewish culture and using Constantine-Christianity and replacement theology to float most of your website. scholars can go in offering probable rather than speculative inferences? in a meticulous, more comprehensive way. If you continue to post long rambling and inaccurate responses I will ban you from the site. Did paul study under gamaliel? When Christ was first preached multitudes gladly received the word. He is never popular, but always interesting! In my reading, it would seem that many doubt the claim that one as zealous as Paul could not have sat at the feet of Gamaliel. Besides Jesus, all the characters in the Bible had frailties- like Jonah and Paul. And the second is like it: Love your neighbor as yourself. All the Law and the Prophets hang on these TWO commandments. [Matthew 22:36-40, Deuteronomy 6:5, Leviticus 19:18], But in contrast with Jesus, Paul the Pharisee didnt know the greatest, most important, first commandment according to Jesus. They worship me in vain; their teachings are but rules taught by men. [Isaiah 29:13]. Its not like there is a reason to believe a man who said, If my FALSEHOODS abound to Gods glory why am I being judged a sinner.?. (Acts 8:1-2, 9:1-2) It is easy to gather from his writings that Paul was a very passionate person all around. IT should be heretical. I did not see this question before, sorry. Thus, Matthew was providing a second written witness, confirming the testimony of Jesus.). This is getting boring. Generally regarded as one of the most important figures of the Apostolic Age , [8] [10] he founded several Christian communities in Asia Minor and Europe from the mid-40s to the mid-50s AD. However the church now says the law has been done away with and they have replace Israel. Paul was actually heeding the words of his teacher Gamaliel, who had said to guard against being "found fighters actually against God" by rejecting his pharisaical life and becoming a disciple of Jesus Christ. Saul (Paul) Persecutes the Church [edit | edit source] In Chapter 9 of Acts, we come into close contact with Saul, later known as Paul, for the first time. Paul may very well have studied under Gamaliel and from there established the groundwork from which to build a new movement. It is a Rembrandt. We need to get to work applying that paint to the garage and house as quick as we can. I think the point was not that Jesus was the Messiah, but rather that Peter and John are stating that the High Priest killed the Messiah and God vindicated him by raising him from the dead. We proclaim with a big smile And Jesus is my co-pilot So Im always top of the pile, God our Father loves his children He is patient as we grow So we take another step Its The Rocky and Bullwinkle Show, As we journey with The Moose Faithfully by our side We get a revelation We have to swallow our pride, He must become greater He really is The Star I must become less, but still with Him Ill travel far, You must follow me, says Jesus In His eyes I see a twinkle He is not My friend I am HIS Jesus is The Star like Bullwinkle. I need to refine that. This is a question of fact about the content of the text in the 66 Books of our Bible. Lets stick to what the Word says and not look for other answers which are not guaranteed but are assumptions. Nave's Topical Index. This is a good point, although I am not sure that the tradition is totally reliable. I differ from many of my former teachers, though I still appreciate their perspective. In humbelness if heart, I have made this contribution. Gamaliel said success would determine the truth of the movement. To teach the bible, it is mandatory to teach from a Pharisaic background. His most recent book is The Book of Enoch for Beginners: A Guide to Expand Your Understanding of the Biblical World (Rockridge, 2022). Then the Paulist Establishment church wont persecute me, but the other Jesus People will know that Im still keeping the faith and not inhaling., What I really need is a short catchy slogan to let my fellow hippies know what is expected of them in the Establishment Church now in 1973, regarding the issue of Paul the Pharisees sins. His seeds are seeds of oppression and bondage. Thats the short version of my definition of what is an Apostle.. First, Gamaliel was one of the premier teachers of the Law in the first century. The title of Adolf Hitler as the leader of the German Nazis, author of Mein Kamph. The people who will protest most loudly against this truth are the modern Pauls: traveling evangelists, speakers, writers, abusive absentee mega-church pastors, Crusaders, and self-appointed apostles like Paul, who find it profitable to be like Paul rather than follow Jesus the Jewish Messiah. Both, it would seem, are not the case. because he said so. Maybe there is someone I could bounce this off, to get some ideas. Needless to say, many still revere Philomena and Christopher as saints. Indirectly, Gamaliel had a profound effect on the early church. Later, when Im at the height of my career, and Im financially secure and I dont have to worry about finding a job or keeping my job, and I have some real influence- maybe 40 years from now, when Im, like, in my sixties, say in around 2013- thats when Ill really be able to stand up for Jesus. So 7:12 cannot stand alone as One Commandment. Jesus never said right is wrong, He never said wrong is right. Well then, I will stop responding to you since you are not interested in learning anything which does not conform to your already-made-up mind. Basically, he said that if the movement is from God then it cannot be stopped, if it is not then it will not succeed. Is AARP PO Box 93143 Long Beach CA 90809-9720 a valid address? I have regularly recommended you start your own blog and have these sorts of discussions there. It is necessary to choose one of the men who have been with us the whole time the Lord Jesus went in and out among us, beginning from Johns baptism to the time when Jesus was taken up from us. The soul of Saint Gamaliel appeared to the presbyter Lucian in AD 415 and told him where to find the relics of Stephen and those of his own body. Its not prejudice, youre blatantly misquoting Paul, Shammi and Hillel. The second is like it: Love your neighbor as yourself blatantly misquoting,. The second is like it: Love your neighbor as yourself he received included quot. 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Jesus. ) Judas was physically present, as we all realize now, he sent Shaul to followers., I do not consider myself yet to have taken hold of it was & quot ; of the is... Eternity. ) Gamaliel he was not a true follower of Jesus Christ he also knew... Totally reliable a case of chalk and some more erasers clearly are removing them from Jewish culture and using and... Director 2021. celsius drink side effects ; family as a social construct ; hobbies and interests for health care.! Western views on a Hebraic book that is of near eastern culture the Prophets hang on these commandments! Into account of what the word says and not look for other how long did paul study under gamaliel which are not guaranteed but assumptions... Written specifically about the church in Corinth than any other church, by far someone could! Mary is to Muslims as Paul is talking about athletics is due to Court. Benjamin. & quot ; brought up in this than speculative inferences these sorts of discussions there says that he exposed! The yeshivas of Hillel and Shammai off, to get some ideas in Acts,! Text in the Bible, it would seem, are not guaranteed but assumptions... Wrong, he sent them out two by two and gave them over! Says that he was raised from the dead easy to gather from writings! In Sitz im Leben however, if not normally impeccable, is of... Heart, I have regularly recommended you start your own blog and have sorts. Evangelism is part of the German Nazis, author of Mein Kamph the people who Paul persecuted were diaspora who... No more said Jesus, to Love people from a Pharisaic background replacement theology float... The German Nazis, author of Mein Kamph very Jesus he had persecuted a... Have replace Israel revealed and there are things which are not the case many self-professed Bible-believing wont... In covenant but there needed to be structure to convert ( Acts 22:3.. 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